The Unbridled Military: A Conversation on Power and Peril

Judge Andrew Napolitano sits down with Ray McGovern to discuss the alarming implications of an unchecked military and the shifting global landscape. They explore recent national security strategies and the potential for military overreach, both abroad and at home.

Key Takeaways

• The potential for military actions, even those targeting drug traffickers, to be turned inward against citizens.
• Concerns about a separate chain of command for special operations, bypassing traditional oversight.
• The strategic shift in US foreign policy towards the Western Hemisphere and domestic threats.
• Questions surrounding the legality and morality of certain military operations.
• The changing global power dynamics and the impact on US foreign policy.

A Military With An Unsettling Attitude

Judge Napolitano opens the discussion by raising a serious concern: the apparent belief by some in the defense establishment that the president can order the killing of anyone, provided they are given a certain label. This isn’t about those actively waging war against the US, but rather individuals involved in activities like drug trafficking or even innocent fishermen. McGovern agrees, calling this attitude "incredibly dangerous" and warning that such power could easily be turned against American citizens.

He highlights the case of Admiral Holes, who reportedly quit his post due to disagreements over these operations, despite advice from his legal counsel that the orders were illegal. McGovern emphasizes the importance of Holes potentially speaking out about why he resigned, suggesting it would be a significant event that even a hesitant Congress couldn’t ignore.

The Shadow Chain of Command

The conversation then shifts to the specifics of a recent operation. It’s unclear whether the attack on a boat, and its subsequent follow-up, was conducted by the Navy or Army. McGovern explains the existence of a Special Operations Command that combines various branches, operating under its own commander. This separate chain of command, he notes, means that communication and intelligence might not be accessible to figures like Admiral Holes, let alone members of Congress. This, he argues, is a deliberate way to avoid scrutiny of potentially illegal operations.

Survivors and Shifting Policies

Judge Napolitano recalls a past incident where survivors of an attack were rescued and then handed over to the DOJ. When the DOJ asked for evidence of a crime, and the Navy couldn’t provide it (as the evidence was at the bottom of the ocean), the survivors were sent home. This, he suggests, indicates a recognition of the criminality of the initial action. He hopes to see footage of the recent incident, noting conflicting reactions from politicians who viewed it. Senator Cotton called it "righteous," while another observer was reportedly sickened by the sight of survivors struggling in the water.

McGovern adds a chilling detail: there were approximately 45 minutes where two survivors were seen calling for help, waving at a US drone overhead. This contradicts earlier suggestions of a "fog of war" and points to a deliberate decision by Admiral Bradley to engage them. Bradley, McGovern notes, seems to be taking the fall for higher-ups, claiming he acted alone.

A New National Security Strategy

The discussion turns to a recently released National Security Strategy paper. McGovern points to an earlier Politico article that suggested the US would focus its resources on the Western Hemisphere and domestic threats, potentially reducing its commitments in Europe and Asia. This would allow the US to "work its will" in regions like Venezuela and also address internal issues.

However, the final draft of the strategy, officially released, makes no mention of domestic use of armed forces. McGovern sees a connection between the emphasis on the Western Hemisphere and the potential for internal deployment. He worries that those crafting policy may not care about the law, and that the focus on the Western Hemisphere could be a cover for preparing forces for domestic use. He questions what threats they anticipate that would require such a focus.

Troops on the Streets?

Judge Napolitano speculates that the anticipated threat might involve troops in the streets, potentially engaging in actions similar to what’s happening in the Caribbean, but on American soil. He expresses concern that these actions seem to disregard American values and the Constitution. While the strategy is framed in "Trumpian terms," it appears to reject decades of Cold War liberalism.

McGovern elaborates, referencing a 1992 conversation where a general, after the Gulf War, discussed the US’s ability to act without Russian interference. The general cautioned that a time would come when Russia could stop the US, and that preparations should be made. Now, McGovern notes, Russia can stop the US, as seen in Ukraine. He contrasts this with President Biden’s earlier, seemingly misinformed, statements about Russia running out of weapons and Putin having already lost.

The Russian Victory and Negotiation

McGovern argues that the situation in Ukraine has fundamentally changed. He believes the Russians have regrouped, retaken territory, and largely achieved their objectives in the Donbas. He suggests that Russia is now in a position to negotiate from a position of strength, and that Putin believes Trump is sincere about seeking peace. He points to a lengthy meeting between Trump and Putin as evidence of serious discussions.

He criticizes the idea that these unofficial talks are improper, stating that progress is being made. He believes that negotiations will eventually involve figures like Lavrov and potentially Rubio. While working groups are active, McGovern asserts that "not all is lost."

European Dilemmas and Domestic Concerns

He then discusses the situation in Europe, where leaders are meeting with Zelenskyy. McGovern predicts they will have to admit they have no money, especially if they can’t access frozen Russian assets. If they are honest, he says, they will tell Zelenskyy to make the best deal he can. However, if their priority is staying in power, they might prolong the conflict. McGovern notes that a decision on December 18th will reveal whether a particular path prevails, and if there’s no money, the war may have to end.

Returning to the domestic use of the military, Judge Napolitano plays a clip of General Kaine, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, discussing the potential for increased American combat power in "our own neighborhood." Kaine suggests this is likely to change and that they will follow guidance.

McGovern interprets "neighborhood" broadly, suggesting it could mean the Caribbean or even domestic locations like Chicago. He connects this to the militarization of agencies like ICE and Border Patrol, all acting at the president’s command. He reiterates his concern about the initial indication of a dual focus on the Western Hemisphere and domestic affairs, despite the official guidance omitting the latter.

The Unspoken Strategy

Judge Napolitano suggests that domestic use isn’t mentioned in the guidance due to statutes prohibiting it and the potential public outcry. However, he believes the administration may disregard these laws. He questions the strategy’s claim to respect national sovereignty and legitimate security needs, particularly in light of actions in Gaza, Ukraine, and threats against Venezuela. He argues that mentioning the need to suppress dissent at home would be "indelicate" but is the real concern.

He highlights the discrepancy between the September leak mentioning domestic affairs and the final guidance. While the guidance has positive aspects, like Trump associating with "core values" (which McGovern contrasts with Ukraine’s lack thereof, according to Obama), the underlying intent remains worrying.

Venezuela and the Illusion of Power

President Trump is then heard warning of land strikes in Venezuela, stating that land incursions would be next. He mentions deterring Venezuelan drug traffickers and stopping them by land, warning them to "stop sending poison to our country."

McGovern points out the inconsistency: the administration claims to respect sovereignty while threatening land strikes not only on Venezuela but also on Colombia. He also notes the release of a major cocaine distributor from federal prison. He argues that the national security strategy, while claiming the Cold War is over, still implies intervention wherever the US desires.

He frames this within a larger context of a "tectonic shift in power from west to east." McGovern believes Trump recognizes the US is no longer the "indispensable country" and is looking for a place to "flex our muscles," similar to Reagan’s invasion of Grenada after the Beirut barracks bombing. He suggests the Western Hemisphere, specifically Venezuela, is chosen because the US is overextended elsewhere.

He expresses a hope that Russia and China are warning Washington against such an action, calling it a "fool’s errand" that could lead to hundreds of thousands of troops deployed in Venezuela.

Media Accountability and the Gaza Conflict

Judge Napolitano then shifts to the role of journalists, playing a clip of Trey Yingst calling for journalists to be allowed into Gaza. Yingst acknowledges the "fearless and tenacious Palestinian journalists" and stresses the need for independent access and holding governments accountable.

McGovern, however, is unimpressed, pointing out that Israelis have already killed American journalists and are unlikely to heed such calls. He believes that such statements are made, but no real follow-up occurs, and that the Israelis will simply ignore them. He concludes by thanking McGovern for his insights.